Solar Pond Electricity Generation

by Peter
(Olinda Vic, Australia)

Does anyone have knowledge of, or have practical experience of the generation of electricity from heat generated (collected) by solar ponds.


Bill Mollison speaks of it in the 1984 Permaculture Design Certificate audio. This seems as though it would have great merit especially for lowering the ongoing carbon footprint.

The key seems to be the design of a turbine or possibly a "heat" driven engine may be a solution.

I would love to have some info. Not so much on the ponds - that concept is easy to grasp. It is what you do with the heat generated that is the main issue and how do you convert it to electricity. I assume a "heat engine" is what is needed or an efficient turbine matched for propane or similar refrigerant.

Your help and web site is greatly appreciated

Peter

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Jan 28, 2015
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Urban Thermal Energy Energy conversion
by: Anonymous

I have been saying this for years. We can generate more than enough heat with a Fresnel lens and a salt pond to provide energy anywhere in world. The heat exchange will need modification based on the local climate.

Thank you.

Samuel J. Sunseri
847.714.6369

Dec 16, 2011
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Organic Solar pond
by: Anonymous


Hello Peter (Olinda)

To touch on a point most Solar Ponds are highly saline for heat capture. Organic pond supporting life has one idiosyncracy - its thermal layer reverses once per year. Heat absorber needs adjustment accordingly.

Cheers

Peter Qld

Dec 16, 2011
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Solar Pond
by: Anonymous

Hello Peter
(Olinda Vic, Australia)

Made reply to both new comment. To you it be too long have sent across by "contact us."

I am pmdastech@gmail.com

Dec 16, 2011
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Dr Meg
by: Anonymous

Hello Dr Meg thank you for your response I shall take your advice and contact accordingly.

Much appreciated.

Cheers Peter

Dec 15, 2011
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Peter's Sealed CO2 turbine
by: Meg

Hi Peter

Please do share your links. Even documents can be shared here. Just contact us (see "contact us" link on left) and we can upload them to our "Free Ebooks" page for all to take advantage of.

Best regards

Meg

Dec 15, 2011
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Solar Pond Electricity Generation with CO2
by: Peter (Olinda)

Hi Peter

You little beauty! Yes I am very interested in your CO2 driven device.

I would love to know more. Can you post web links to the device and the NASA investigations into the use of CO2 and its physical properties?

Can you also give an idea of the cost of construction and maintenance?

Cheers

Peter

Dec 15, 2011
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Sealed Co2 Turbine
by: Peter Qld Australia

Hello Peter
(Olinda Vic, Australia)

To obtain best energy output from a solar pond, the mechanics of conversion need deliver the greatest energy output from least heat input. Having spent considerable years on such project and being first to publish along with NASA alternate use of CO2. You may have an interest in fully sealed CO2 turbine. Co2 being chosen out of all the gasses as it has self cooling propperties. Ridding the need of cooling attachment for return of either cool gas or cool liquid. Co2 has not before received much mention due to its odd behaviour, its a gas that behaves as if it be a liquid, and further it boils at the bottom minus 40* Celsius and freezes at the top Dry-Ice minus 40* Celsius when subject to heating above plus 33* Celsius. Our work demonstrated is a one litre hydro turbine of 60 RPM when subject to heat of minus 10* Celius produces 720 watts increasing to 720 Kilowatts at temperature of plus 100* Celius. The entire device has one moving part the hydro runner. I can be completely home built including turbine by cut and join of pipe, however line pipe is needed at the higher wattage as the water pressure is 10,000 bar whilst at lowest output it be 9 bar pressure. Wattage increases by volume or speed. In 2007 we released the entire device in Open Technology out of love for the children and the children to come. Instead of releasing excess CO2 into the biosphere surrounding our Earth we saw it better that the energy of CO2 be exploited for the better of all. Should you have point of contact or this site allows complete engineerings and construction means are available. Cheers Peter

Jan 12, 2011
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Solar electric generation
by: Layth

Hi Robert
You have invented your steam turbine rated to 70 kw and that is very suitable for farm irrigation needs if using under ground water, so I'm preparing to make a solar power station to drive water pumps with power of 50 kw and spray it around the farm by a large spraying movable machine. Now I'd like your advice how to get your steam turbine to cover my farm needs and to be a leader project in my big area which includes a lot of farms covering hundreds of donems.
thank you
Layth Ayoub
laythwaha@yahoo.com

Jul 06, 2010
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Solar powered steam engine?
by: Peter

Hi Robert

Good to hear from you.

Your invention of a rotary steam engine with one moving part sounds great.

70 kw is more than I was hoping for - beaut. I assume that by providing less fuel that less power would be generated.

Without giving away any “sensitive info”, how do you envision running your engine off “steam” (probably not water based) driven by solar (pond) power as opposed to usual fuels burning to produce water based steam. Though I guess that if the solar pond can generate 80 to 90 degrees Centigrade then you only have to find fuel enough gain another 10 to 20 degrees to run you engine. What sort of volumes of steam are needed to run your engine?

Could you engine regather vented steam to re-condense and run back into the solar pond for reheating? This would be of great benefit if non water based steam could be used.

Peter

Jul 05, 2010
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Electric Power Cost Reduction
by: Robert M. Service

Peter,

Your comment about the need for a low cost simple steam motor or engine to replace micro
turbines for electric power production using solar ponds and other technologies caught my
immediate interest.

I have invented a rotary steam motor of the size to power a 70 kW generator/alternator for
such applications. So far, none of the contract manufacturers that I have submitted the design
and material specifications to on my motor have chose to bid on manufacturing it. I required
a nondisclosure agreement before releasing this information to them.

My motor has one moving part and will replace micro turbines which are high tech, high rpm,
short lived, and very expensive. I am under a time limit to find an appropriate contract
manufacturer for my engine or it goes into the public domain since my patent is provisional. I
have other technologies of somewhat less market potential under the same patent.

Sincerely,
Robert M. Service, Senior Consultant & Founder
R. M. Service & Associates
rmsa@mchsi.com Cell: 319-830-1809


Jan 19, 2010
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More on Stirling Heat Engines...
by: Peter

Thanks Tabor,

Your links were more food for thought.

I followed up on your suggestion of Stirling heat engines. I found:

http://www.redrok.com/engine.htm#piston

Some of the links don't work but some are beauties like:

http://www.xenotechresearch.com/solturb1.htm

The You-tube video looks great for the amount of steam coming out through their turbine.

The array of lenses are daunting and I would have thought that heating propane or similar low boiling point liquid would be a more elegant (straight into the turbine) solution to all that glassware that would only work on a sunny day.

If you find any more I would love to have you share it.

Cheers

Peter, Olinda, Vic, Australia

Jan 14, 2010
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Here to help
by: Tabor

Hello! Great post. I honestly had no knowledge of solar ponds before this. However I did some research and think I can brainstorm with you. And Im definitely going to have to go back over all my Mollison data, he's done so very much!

I read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_pond
and it got me thinking...

With building up a high heat potential I naturally thought "Sterling engine" - google that! An engine like that could easily work with the heat stored and captured by a solar pond. The rotational force is applied to a generator to produce current. I'd look into the details of the Beit HaArava pond built in Israel, as wiki sites.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/h14w1kj2575uq36q/
http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=JSEEDO000126000003000921000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes&ref=no
I found these journal papers. Looks like some will cost ya. But keep looking. I have faith.
Thank you,
Tabor

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